First of all, let me say: I know I know! Quark 4!?!? What am I thinking? I work in a newspaper where the company is trying to upgrade the entire country to InDesign and CS3. Our editorial departments still run on Quark 4 and will not be upgraded until next year. So in the meantime, we need to make this sloppy mess work.

Second of all: We are one of 2 newspapers in the company that have been upgraded to CS3. Everyone else is still on CS2. So we have no one else to ask.

Now for the problem.

In ID, we can't use Export to PDF because Quark 4 will not cooperate with the Open Type fonts that are being used. Therefor we are printing to PostScript files, distilling them in Distiller 8, dumbed down to Acrobat 4 compatibility. Once distilled, we are importing those PDFs into pages made in Quark. When importing, PDFs made through distiller display a generic icon (blank paper instead of PDF icon). We can import the files just fine. But, when we go to print, either to file or to printer, as Quark is ripping the images, it crashes.

Now, just to throw another wrench in the problem, it seems that only files built in ID that HAVE PHOTOSHOP CS3 FILES PLACED ON THEM are the ones that crash. (This is a new development, I haven't had time to check it out thoroughly).

If anyone could possibly help at all we would be eternally grateful! We're talking about 300 files a week that we need to fix to get our paper to press on time.

Hello,

Welcome. Oh man, I have fielded this question so many times and related issues about how Quark likes pdf and why it does this and that. In the following links I go on at length about all the related issues of this. So, browse through. I do not advise PDF as a placed image for fractional art. You would be much better off using simple EPS. PDF is meant to be a FINAL page handoff format, not a format for fractional art. But, I understand how it is in the trenches too. Doing this with OLD QUARK requires a good understanding of what is going to work, how/why yada yada. HTH

BTW: if you must PDF into Quark, why not use PDF Optimizer? Also, if you take the PDF, SAVE AS postscript, be sure to set convert fonts to Type 1, all these fonts giving you fits will settle down after that. Additionally, your comment about files will not RIP where CS3 photoshop files were placed. That's a given, .psd is NOT a real format for placed images and should not be used. .psd is an application file, only recently supported as a placed file. Just like .ai and .psd (USUALLY WORK). I do not advise anybody ever build docs with files that (USUALLY WORK). Use eps, Tiff, Jpeg, etc and formats that (ALWAYS WORK). Using .psd and .ai as placed images is for massochists who want to make their life harder.

Prepress Forum, Quark 3.32 and pdf to eps
Oh yeah, The PDF from client is placed within an Indesign document and exported to EPS so .... pdf exported to level 3 ASCII EPS for Quark 3.32 workflow? ...
http://software-robotics.com/graphic-design-prepress/viewtopic.php?p=1989

Prepress Forum, PDF growing in size after Output in Quark Xpress ...
This can also have to do with ASCII vs Binary PDF files. Binary are much much smaller. Quark likes ASCII as a placed image. It also may be Quark actually ...
http://software-robotics.com/graphic-design-prepress/viewtopic.php?t=928

Prepress Forum, PDFs sent from Quark, Placed PDF in Quark Xpress ...
(c) If you are trying to output separations to a RIP, or write separated postscript from Quark with placed PDF files, the PDF files MUST BE ASCII. ...
http://software-robotics.com/graphic-design-prepress/viewtopic.php?p=1999

PDF-X-Robot glossary of quark xpress adobe acrobat distiller adobe ...
ASCII format does not contain paragraph or other formatting information. ...... In DTP, a measure of the number of dots per inch placed by the writing ...
http://software-robotics.com/docs/PDF-X-Robot_Prepress_Glossary.html

Prepress Forum, Placed PDF in Quark problem, Importing PDF to Quark
Placed PDF in Quark acting up. Hello Pressworthy, Welcome to the forum. .... prepress forums, graphic design forums, Placed PDF in Quark problem, ...
http://software-robotics.com/graphic-design-prepress/viewtopic.php?p=1497

Prepress Forum, PDF Security, PDF Priveleges warning in Quark Xpress 4
But, if you will need to output separations from Quark Xpress, be sure EPS is saved as level 2 ASCII format, this includes the PDF if you want to place it ...
http://software-robotics.com/graphic-design-prepress/viewtopic.php?t=1112

Prepress Forum, RE: adobe pdf import to quark 6.5 problems, how to ...
RE: adobe pdf import to quark 6.5 problems, how to import. Greetings Valred, Welcome to the forum. You came to the right place, there's a pretty hardcore ...
http://software-robotics.com/graphic-design-prepress/viewtopic.php?t=271

Prepress Forum, Quarkxpress 6.5 PDF import problem, security password?
When using PDF files as a fractional ad or placed art in Quark, ... Also, you want to use ASCII which makes a much larger PDF file than what we are mostly ...
http://software-robotics.com/graphic-design-prepress/viewtopic.php?t=319
_________________
JoePostscript -- support administrator

--
Wind Turbine Buyer's Guide


.

hi and welcome to the forums

joe is right on plenty there - it will help you.

my first question is a silly one - if you have indesign open do the whole thing in indy right? i mean - its not that hard...surely - and for a big organisation taking files from one layout programme to another sounds a little convoluted....

then again - you gotta do what ya gotta do

in the indy jobs outline the fonts before saving

with your psd or ai files there's a good chance there could be fonts in those files - and if you dont have them and you pdf out that could be a reason quack dies with those files only - so check those out. Anything other than a 1.3 wont work in quack - make sure when saving out of indy you save the right version. sadly transparency - or live transparency - will be lost - good luck!

i disagree with what joe says about psd and ai files - to a degree. If you indy files were set up with the intention of the whole job being processed through indy then ai or psd is a very solid way of working, and if checked thoroughly will work fine.

thing is - you are taking those indy files containing ai or psd files into quack - and that will/can cause an issue. so you need to be a little cunning. you can copy paste between indy and illy - so instead of "placing/linking" the ai file - copy it in illy, paste into indy - no linked ai file to go wrong! BUT!!!! be very careful doing it - transparencies - rotating drop shadows...just be very careful. any psd files in illy need to be treated as below too. I'd also outline fonts in the ai file before copy/paste.

as for the placed psd files - well - resave as eps, re-import into indy and reposition - using a 50% transparency setting helps in position - or the x/y co-ordinates etc - then delete the psd files, leaving just your new eps's in there.

quack and pdf is never much fun, so when i absolutely HAVE to do it, i make the incoming pdf as simple as possible. no fonts i poss, correct colours (a no brainer) and only tiff/eps as graphics within.

the method of pdf to quack from indy to me is not a good practise - if what you are going to be receiving is indy files it would be more logical to keep them native in indy, but again you may not be in a position to do that, but, imho, a quack 4 workflow is too old and at some point you gotta get ahead on that.

i hope this helps in a small way.
_________________
expertise: nothing

Assuming you are using a Mac (shouldn't be an issue on a PC) you can use OpenType fonts with Quark 4, the trick is to add the OpenType fonts to the OS 9 (or classic) System Folder in the Fonts sub-folder. (has to be the individual .otf files too, no fonts in folders).

I have the entire Adobe Font Folio OpenType Edition loaded into Classic on my G4 PowerMac. I use these with Quark 4 to convert our existing Quark files to OpenType fonts so they work better with our Kodak Prinergy system.
_________________
Timothy Boyden
Network Administrator
MailCoups, Inc.

Expertise: Windows, Mac, Linux/UNIX Support, Adobe CS, Quark, Prinergy Connect/Insite, Programming (PHP, VB, CSH, HTML), Trendsetter News 50, Magnum/Didde Presses

jeez - how many fonts is that?

does classic take more fonts run via osx than an old mac and classic would have (ie: pre-osx macs)
_________________
expertise: nothing

That would be 2181 fonts. I guess I should cavet my prior post and say all of the Western OpenType fonts, I don't use the Asian ones.

Apple has changed the font limit over the years for OS 9, it started at 128 fonts then went up to 1,024 fonts and then finally only limited by the amount of RAM you have in your computer.

The menu manager does have a limit on the number of fonts it can show, however it is smart in that it groups the fonts into families, of which there are only 420 of on the Adobe Font Folio CD. The latest version of OS 9 can handle between 700 - 1800 font families.

The technote I am referencing is:

http://developer.apple.com/qa/tx/tx13.html

Now that being said, do I recommend doing what I am doing? Hell no. But I have a lot of RAM in my G4 and I'm lazy about adding and removing fonts from Classic and having to restart it every time I add/remove a font. Also does it play havoc with Suitcase/FontExplorerX and the fonts I have loaded for OS X? Sometimes, but I'm careful about not mixing my work. I don't use Quark 4 and Classic when I'm doing work in my OS X apps.

Fortunately this is a short term work-around. Quark 4 and Classic are quickly dying here, most of our work is being done in InDesign now and we are pushing our freelancers and external artists to submit everything in InDesign. Even that process is becoming extinct, we soon will be only excepting PDFs and if there is a problem with the PDF it will be sent back, even 1 minute before deadline. No more BS.
_________________
Timothy Boyden
Network Administrator
MailCoups, Inc.

Expertise: Windows, Mac, Linux/UNIX Support, Adobe CS, Quark, Prinergy Connect/Insite, Programming (PHP, VB, CSH, HTML), Trendsetter News 50, Magnum/Didde Presses

Hi Joe. Thanks for getting back to me on this.

quote:

---

Originally posted by joepostscript:


BTW: if you must PDF into Quark, why not use PDF Optimizer?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by joepostscript:


Additionally, your comment about files will not RIP where CS3 photoshop files were placed. That's a given, .psd is NOT a real format for placed images and should not be used.

---

Distiller doesn't let you do that per se, but OS X let's you setup folder actions that you could assign to the Distiller watched folders that could effectively do what your looking to do.
_________________
Timothy Boyden
Network Administrator
MailCoups, Inc.

Expertise: Windows, Mac, Linux/UNIX Support, Adobe CS, Quark, Prinergy Connect/Insite, Programming (PHP, VB, CSH, HTML), Trendsetter News 50, Magnum/Didde Presses

quote:

---

Originally posted by trboyden:
Distiller doesn't let you do that per se, but OS X let's you setup folder actions that you could assign to the Distiller watched folders that could effectively do what your looking to do.

---

Here's a link to Apple's introductory information, it should get you started.

http://www.apple.com/applescript/folderactions/
_________________
Timothy Boyden
Network Administrator
MailCoups, Inc.

Expertise: Windows, Mac, Linux/UNIX Support, Adobe CS, Quark, Prinergy Connect/Insite, Programming (PHP, VB, CSH, HTML), Trendsetter News 50, Magnum/Didde Presses

In looking through the folder actions sample scripts or default script, I found one that is Convert PS to PDF. Amazingly enough, creating the PDF this way DOES NOT crash Quark like all our other ways. The question is, are PDF's created this way suitable to use for a prepress environment? Will there be any issues with fonts?

I'm exicted...this could be the solution to our problem IF it is ok to use.

Best way to check is to preflight the PDF file it generates. I'm not sure if Acrobat 6 has the preflighting capabilities built-in to it, but it'd be under Tools -> Print Production -> Preflight if it does. There is also a Preflight option under the Advanced menu on my version (7.0) (same utility I believe).

Check it using the PDFX1-A profile and look at any errors it produces. Pay careful attention to the resolution of your images, font embedding, and any other potential gotchas for what you do.
_________________
Timothy Boyden
Network Administrator
MailCoups, Inc.

Expertise: Windows, Mac, Linux/UNIX Support, Adobe CS, Quark, Prinergy Connect/Insite, Programming (PHP, VB, CSH, HTML), Trendsetter News 50, Magnum/Didde Presses

I'm guessing if Preflight says it's not a PDF/X file, then I can't use it?

Not necessarily. Like I said you have to look at the errors produced to see if they are acceptable to you. PDFX1-A is a strict profile looking for specific things wrong with the PDF file. For instance we use OPI image swapping and the OPI comments embedded in the PDF file will trigger an error with the PDFX1-A preflight profile, but that's acceptable to us because we need the comments. So you really have to look at the details. The main thing to look for is whether all your fonts are embedded, and whether your images are at a resolution you are expecting, like greater than 72 DPI which is only good for screen/web display.

Beyond preflighting in software, the only other simple test you can do is do a proof test on your printing equipment and see how the output looks.
_________________
Timothy Boyden
Network Administrator
MailCoups, Inc.

Expertise: Windows, Mac, Linux/UNIX Support, Adobe CS, Quark, Prinergy Connect/Insite, Programming (PHP, VB, CSH, HTML), Trendsetter News 50, Magnum/Didde Presses

Hi nitey4ever,

ANY process you can dream up, I can automate for you. That includes using PDF optimizer, or EPS to PDF to Proof or whatever, all applications, any process. If you can map out and vette a process and workflow that will work, I can automate that. Most of the stuff we have talked about here can be done for a few hundred bucks by paypal. So, if you decide what would work nicely for you I can automate it in a few hours and your problems are solved for good. Let me know if you want to get it done professionally.

Also, PDF/X-1a is pretty irrelevant and is more marketing than necessity. PDF/X-1a doesn't even provide for resolution standards, so a PDF/X-1a CAN be a good file, OR NOT... PDF/X-1a supports all kinds of bad things like copydot scans and crap that has no business in a true blind handoff.

Preflight must happen before a PDF is made or it isn't preflight, that's postflight and a sure way to double work jobs. Any preflight should be done just prior to EPS, PS, or PDF creation. PDF should be a final result and if made correctly, needs no review, should be ready to go. If you want to automate a good process, then HAS TO include preflight. Without that, you have created a very fast method of producing bad files, problem jobs now flowing faster than ever..

I can put your CS3 on a custom PDF-X-Robot that preflights, makes an EPS for Quark, a Plate ready PDF, and outputs a proof of that PDF in one click. No hot folders, distiller etc., professional proven automation. ID CS3 > PDF-X-Robot Menu > To EPS, PDF, Proof. Your page production, a model for the company to follow. How appropriate since you are first to CS3.
_________________
JoePostscript -- support administrator

--
Wind Turbine Buyer's Guide


.

One easy comment Joe is

If you do not know if your file is correct, do not send a printer a PDF file, let them make it from the original files.

OK, after fighting with these files for the last week, I have more information to give. I'm starting to think it is file names that are causing the issue, not InDesign PDFs, not how they're distilled, not how the PDF is made from Quark. See if you can follow my logic below and let me know what you think.

I was working with a page called "Here's My Card". It has 18 ads on it, business card style/size. I started at box 1, placed the ad, printed it to postscript. It worked. I added the ad for box 2, printed to postscript. It worked. Added the ad for box 3, printed to postscript. It crashed Quark.

I opened the ad in InDesign that crashed Quark. Resaved the image used on it (only 1 image with a 1 pt blk border) - resaved to tif with color profile embedded and LWZ compression off (the options were opposite in the original file). Placed both back into ID, made the PDF, imported to Quark, printed to postscript. It still crashed. So I made a brand new file in ID, placed the image on there (no copy/paste), made the pdf, blah blah. It worked! So here I was thinking that opening the original quark file (from before our upgrade) in ID was doing something bad to the file. Ad #3 fixed!

Added ad for box #4, quark crashed. I resaved the images, it crashed. I created a new file and copied/pasted. It crashed. I created every single element of the page new on a new file, it crashed. So obviously, it's not the new document.

I took every element off the new document, one by one, and kept trying the pdfs, and they kept crashing. I got down to absolutely nothing on the document. It worked. So I tried the reverse direction. I created a new document called 1.indd. made the pdf, it worked. I copied/pasted all of the elements from the original ad, made the pdf, and surprise surprise, it worked!

Now here's where it gets interesting:
file named 1.pdf, I renamed through the finder to "WR Scott_HMC.pdf". It crashed. I did not open the ad and do anything to it. Nothing changed except the filename itself, and through finder no less... not using a Save As. I thought it might be the length of the filename, but one of the first 2 ads that worked was called "Canada Brokerlink_HMC.pdf" and it worked fine. So I compared filenames on the 4 ads:
Zytech_HMC.pdf
Canada Brokerlink_HMC.pdf
Flames_HMC.pdf
WR Scott_HMC.pdf

The only distinct item in the WR Scott file was a "W". So I renamed the WR Scott file to "R Scott_HMC.pdf". It worked. I changed it again to "W.pdf", expecting that for some reason Quark didn't like the W and that it would crash. But it worked. Again, through the finder, I renamed the pdf to "123456.pdf". It worked. Renamed back to "WR Scott_HMC.pdf" and it crashed. I took out the underscore, it still crashed. I put the underscore back in, but took out the space, and it worked.

My husband suggested maybe it has an issue with 2 digits then a space, so I tried taking out the space on another file and renaming it to ETHome.pdf (for the sake of less letters to type in the filename), but that one crashed. I stopped testing at that point, and came running home to see what you all think.

Do you think it's a filename issue? What do you think the issue is? Anyone run across something like this before?

Thanks so much for all of the help so far. Also, Joe, thanks for the offer. I love the idea of streamlining and being an example for all the other papers to work from. It's unfortunate that there are too many differences between each branch for us to be able to do something like that.

Hello Nitey,

Man, This is a file war isn't it, strange deal and so mysterious.. if you told me that last paragraph first I would have just laughed. Not that a file name cant cause a problem, but those are all very legal and legitimate file names. As long as there is ONLY one PEERIOD, and all else is alpha-numeric, dash, or underscore, there <should> be no problem.. I personally will never use a space in an image file or PDF but many people do. I don't go fixing them when I see them or anything, just, if I ever save a file I never use a space, internet habbit I guess.

Let's do this, wrap all that up into a zip file, collect for output, the stuff that doesn't work, maybe a few extra pages, and see if you upload it to me, what will it do for me? I'm going to email you my upload info. I'll take the files, work out what's up with them and see if I can't run them and simulate a solution as I figure out the problem. End result, I'll send back proofs of the final output, a few plate-ready PDF to test, and same pages in EPS that will work in Quark 4 easily. Hopefully I figure out what is the deal with the files while I am at it. Or maybe I can show you the way I run them that it isn't a problem? (possible) it happens..

What kind of RIP systems do you guys use when you go to plate? As far as not being able to use Robot to standardize different branches, that's not true. It's just software that can be used with documentation, will standardize everything very easily, if they want. If not, you can just blow them away with lowest errors and fastest processing, oh well.
_________________
JoePostscript -- support administrator

--
Wind Turbine Buyer's Guide


.

That would be great, thanks!

Maybe we need to talk more about the standardizing thing. If I had a better understanding of what you could do, I could push for it here maybe. But warning...our company is cheap! Up until we upgraded 3 weeks ago, they only had 1 copy of photoshop 6 in this office for 7 people. Yes I said SEVEN! Anyway, we'll talk more about that later.

Thanks Joe

Since we've had problems copying to/from our server before, we thought we'd try copying a PDF that IS crashing Quark to the desktop. Imported it from there, and it doesn't crash.

What on our server would be causing that?