Hi all, for many years you have been able to print your jobs to PDF that include bleed and trim areas when you define them in the print setup.

But what if your templates have all of that defined within your pages, how do you then get that information into your resulting PDF without post processing your file with something like Pitstop.

I'd like to be able to define Bleed Guides and Trim Guides within my documents that are carried through to Postscript or PDF that the workflow systems then honor rather than redefining them after.

Anyone know of a plugin for Quark and Indesign, or want to write one? We are currently using Xinet Fullpress for OPI and Dalim Twist as the workflow engine, I know we could do something in Twist but we 1000's of templates it's pretty hard.

Let me know what you think.

Gary

Hello,

Nice Avatar you chose. I'm not exactly certain what you are wanting to do? So, what you are describing I think is that the docs were built like old fashioned art boards, paste ups. The designer or artist actually made the document size LARGER than the actual trim. Then, they placed a bunch of crap on the document to build their own bleed and trim marks.

OMG, this IS a pet peeve. Or, are you by chance a designer who wants to do this to your documents? And if so, my apologies for being blunt about that.

Just so I am clear, please describe what you are having to do in PitStop exactly.

Also, are you saying that your page size as defined in document setup is SAME as actual trim size, and you want to make PDF that shows stuff you put outside the trim area of the doc, like out on the pasteboard?

OR are you defining the page size to be larger than actual trim size, and putting allot of extra stuff in that page but wanting to then create your own bleed and trim marks etc.
.
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JoePostscript -- support administrator

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Wind Turbine Buyer's Guide


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Hi

TO define trim box inside a pdf, I use Prinergy3 plugin for Acrobate or automaticly whith Twist (TrimBox + SetparamfromRe).

ifnot : Pitstop

You could look at as old fashioned, or you could say that since we work from creative design, right the way through to print with correction cycles all done remotely that we actually provide good presentation of the documents to the clients....

But I agree this information is not required in the final job.

GG

Having your trim and bleed marks and colour bars etc. on the PDF is OK for output through any imposition software, because the program will trim them off and put in its own versions. If you want to use the marks from your PDFs on the inposition instead, define the bleed to be bigger (say 10mm) on the outside edges so that they show. They are always there anyway. Just be careful about where your extra bleed is going.

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Ok lets look at this a different way, your a printer and receive 1000's for files from designers or two bit repro houses in the back end of nowhere but they are used coz they are cheap. You as a printer have to use pitstop, to add those trim & bleed boxes as those designers/repro bod's couldn't even get the page centred!

So if they had a plugin that was like guides that sent those box parameters into the postscript stream or PDF generation wouldn't that be useful?

GG

The only issue I have ever seen with someone creating their own marks is that they either leave them in black or they are not consistant. The other thing is many, and I mean from what I have seen, many people who do things this way will create a large page, put notes and stufff around the page, and have nothing consistent. Putting the designed page in the middle, with the same area left and right, top an bottom would be ideal, but not always true. If someone were to do this consistently, they should ask the end user, the printer, if there is anything they could do to make life easier with their files. In the long run, the easier the page is to work with, the less time spent preping the file, the less money it costs for the pre-press part of the cost of the job. One thing we all know, cost is something everyone likes to keep as low as possible, without sacrificing quality.

Exactly my point, so a plugin that could do what I have suggested would be ideal....

One client we have likes to have all of their corporate usage information around their pages during the creative/localization stages and don't want to pay for that final repro/preping stage.

Think I will discuss this with the Quark development team and see if they can add it to Quark 8

GG

This may be something more on the lines of a 3rd party Xtention. I can not see Quark doing this, but then again, you never know. I remember they spoke of custom or personalized crop marks and registration marks from Quark 3 to Quark 4. It is Quark 7 and still nothing directly from them. If you ask nicely, maybe JP will make up something in his FREE TIME (how about that one there Joe, get a good laugh). When I see it from Quark, then I will believe it

Yeah I hear you with Quark, although they are a changing company.... But then I am speaking about the company that released a version of software that didn't even print correctly! (kick in the teeth as I had guys beta testing it in our workflow for over 6 months and none of them ever printed from it!!)

But you know it would be a useful xtension, maybe Badia could add it to Print Tools???

GG

Try printing from Quark 7 to any Xerox machine. Xerox says it is Quarks problem, and Quark never responded to either them or myself, so luckily I have to make PDF files anyways, so I print the B&W proofs from the PDF.

Emmm, interesting as I have all Xerox machines and have no problems, what are you getting?
And what models?

GG

Documents should always be built to actual trim size, period. Any extra stuff that a designer wants on there like old style info area is OK but S/B placed OUTSIDE that trim, in the pasteboard area. Then accurate marks can be applied when output.

Then all the artist has to do is print that onto a larger page size, like 11 x 17, centered both ways (to the trim) so that their extra info is on the proof and in the PDF too. As long as the final PDF is symetrical, if you have a 2" box for art info at bottom, needs to have 2" of area at top of file also. So that actual trim with accurate marks is CENTERED in that oversized PDF. Then, Like Paul says, the impo software will center that PDF into the window and all that crap will not show at imposed proof and plate anyway.

This is how the art designer or creator can do this right and not make a problem for the printer or anyone else.

If I had a batch of these that were not centered, I would automatically crop all the PDF files centered and then feed them into the RIP, no need for PitStop? If they were not consistant in position, I would reject the job and have them fix the stuff up.
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JoePostscript -- support administrator

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Hi JP, that's perfect world, and in the real world it just doesn't happen.

Also client workflows are removing the 'repro' element out of the process so final pdf's come from anyone!

GG

Soem of us don't have the luxury of this. If the PDF is good enough to print, make it work is the answer, ALWAYS