Hi all,

I'm afraid this is probably one of those " how long is a piece of string? " questions, but I live in hope

Does any supplier/manufacturer of paper, printers or ink supply a set of recommended ink levels for a given setup? For example, we all know newspaper stock has a low total ink threshold before problems occur with over-saturation. Equally, high density/coated stock can have a high total ink coverage.

What I am ideally looking for is not just a total ink limit (220% or 320% or whatever) but a stepped set of limits. For example, 200% = Safe, 240% = Max Recommended, 260% = Absolute Maximum, etc.

There are so many potential setups out there, but surely "Pros" don't just rely on past experience?

Any help, pointers to suppliers, etc. would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick
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Phantasm CS | Designer | Studio - the essential Adobe Illustrator color plugin range
www.phantasmcs.com

this is a loaded question. Here are a few things you need to know first. What are the presses they are going to be run on. If it is a 4 color Heidelberg Speedmaster with all the bells and whistles, then it can hold the ink better than a 1965 4 color ancient press. The pressman makes a difference too. There is no real answer until you test out jobs, in my eyes. You could make a happy medium for each type of stock, but there is no standard by me

quote:

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Originally posted by ClevelandPrinter:
this is a loaded question. Here are a few things you need to know first. What are the presses they are going to be run on. If it is a 4 color Heidelberg Speedmaster with all the bells and whistles, then it can hold the ink better than a 1965 4 color ancient press. The pressman makes a difference too. There is no real answer until you test out jobs, in my eyes. You could make a happy medium for each type of stock, but there is no standard by me

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240% is safe for most non newspaper offset work, with black at 100%

On newsprint, don't go over 200%

Much of this will involve making design descisions based on pressroom reality. I had a customer once who wanted her newspaper masthead to be "GREEN" so she created "GREEN", 100% each of cyan and yellow. Thier prepress people called me when this came off their old Goss Communicator looking like mud.

My solution was to create a color using much lower precentages of cyan and yellow, along with some black. It produced the same color onscreen, and was printable on press.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for these insights. It is a point; how inks are absorbed into the paper makes a real effect on the end result; in your example, perhaps the mix of 3 inks was approaching the original 200% coverage, and yet it worked best.

I've noted a few references to GCR techniques for higher-absorbency stock. It is something to keep in mind.

All the best,

Nick
_________________
Phantasm CS | Designer | Studio - the essential Adobe Illustrator color plugin range
www.phantasmcs.com

I have printed and seen printed over 340 on a good coated sheet, but would not recommend this. I like the 300-320 range for printing coated and matte, but I know jobs where 260-280 looks just as good. It depends on the coverage, as well as thickness of stock. 340 went on a thick cover for a folder, which was eventually laminated. The issue also comes down to what else needs to be done with that sheet. Die cut, fold, stitch, perfect bind, foil, emboss, glue, perf, etc. All of these could scratch or damage a good printing job. A coating of some sort is sometimes needed also. Varnish, aqueous, UV, etc are good protectors of a print job, and with each is a different price add on also. There are a lot of things to think about besides just the amount of ink going on a sheet for density

There are a lot of variables, that's for sure.

The green I mentioned above actually ended up about 120% total of cyan, yellow, and black, producing very nearly the same color on newsprint as 100% of cyan and yellow did on the computer screen.

at anything more than 280%, I'll bet your pressman is cursing you, as he turns down his ink volumes and loses highlight detail

One of the problems with the industry as a whole today is that prepress has been taken over by computer people, and what is achievable and looks good on an RGB monitor can be VERY different than what is achievable and looks good on any one of a zillion different presses.

And then of course we have the pressmen who are setting ink levels for "what looks best" on any given day, any given ambient lighting, any given level of hangover.

Real live on press testing, in your own shop on your own press is the only real way to answer this question. Arming your pressman with a densitometer, and the knowledge and willingness to use it will let your shop repeat the test day after day, on any job that comes in the door.

AMEN

As a person who has been through the entire print shop working, I know that if you piss off the pressman, they will only give you a so so job. They feel if you do not care about what you give them, then why should they care about the final product. Yep, its a game sometimes to get the best out of everyone

Hi ClevelandPrinter and Jim,

I also agree with what you say. Ink coverage levels is only a single part to consider in the bigger scheme of things; but it has to be considered none-the-less. And for many designers, they do not get the opportunity to work on presses, so some guidance is surely better than complete ignorance?

But some good news is that with some help, I managed to come across the following resources web page: http://www.gracol.org/resources/ . Of particular interest is the GRACoL 6 Characterization Chart - an Excel file, but also present in the PDF Introduction to GRACoL . The table gives recommended TAC levels for given Paper/Substrate.

Yes - these are only guidelines, but the source of the information gives me hope

Thanks again for your insights and help. All appreciated and noted.

Nick
_________________
Phantasm CS | Designer | Studio - the essential Adobe Illustrator color plugin range
www.phantasmcs.com