yet another brisque customer worried about what Kodak's real intentions are with their Brisque customers. We all know they want us to change over to Prinergy. Is that the right move? With the service contract costs that you can't do without, the cost of the service contract ends up being almost as much as the product itself. I am currently putting them up against Rampage Inc. (a smaller but much more personalized company). So far I don't see where Kodak has any type of advantage. I have been on demonstrations on both and I believe that both products have similar features. I just don't want to fall into Scitex/Creo/Kodakand whom ever else decides to buy them, service contract/dongle land. You want to use it it is 10,000 dollars and I'll send you the dongle for One user. The waiting for a phone service call response for 1-2 hours. There win/win service contracts that I still to this day am waiting for a list of customers that have actually won. I guess thats why they officially cancelled the program last month. I think there are alot of people and companies in my situation "Brisque Users" that need to make a move. My advise to KODAK is open up the the new world that when you sell a product, sell the whole thing. Don't split it up into a hundred separate items with separate service contracts. Take a lesson from the smaller guys that are actually making a profit from selling prepress software. People like me hate paying for insurance. If Kodak had alot of confidence in there product they should sell it that way. Car companies influenced people to buy their product by offering a 5 year 50,000 mile warranty, now some companies go even further. It's not enough to spend $600,000 on a prepress dept we also have to spend $60,000 to $70,000 a year on service contracts. I don't know anyone who likes to pay for insurance, I sure don't. Bottom line is there anyone out there in my same situation who has experience with another RIP/Prepress system other than Scitex/Creo/Kodak. Please respond I need to get as many opinions as possible to make a decision quickly. By the way anyone want to buy a complete system (lotem800V2, Brisque 4, Brisque Impose, Kodak Approval XP4 with Brisque, 2 43" wide Iris Proofers. This system is currently running my $20MM dollar a year company with no problem and can be demonstrated as well. You know what tahn why am I looking for new? Oh thats right SCITEX/CREO/KODAK is cancelling all of our contracts on the brisque and sort of pushing us into "PRINERGY". I hope for Kodaks sake they get off there high horse and check in with reality. Printing is not the high profit industry it used to be.

Hi Again nycprinter,

Yes, dude, that's where I'm coming from. There's a bright spot in all this. I bought a whole damn Esko SCOPE system and the ROI almost completely came from throwing out Kodak. Their cost of ownership for Brisque was so high, the same money could make payments on an Esko SCOPE system, or several others. The SMA cost on a Esko SCOPE is less than 1/4 what I pay Kodak. The rest can buy you a kick ass system!

It's more than just the Brisque. I was using the plates too. IMO Kodak treats it's customers like some kind of bought property. They think that they just buy technology and customers with it. Of course they don't seem to care about fair dealing and customer satisfaction, you're just an asset to them. My SMA went up about 25%, my plate contracts were being overbilled, I was getting two attempted price increases a year. All the while they were phasing out my systems and equipment, discontinuing stuff. Hell, I got two Encad 1000i inkjets in the sign shop, Kodak bought them and shut the whole business before my Encads were 2 years old.

Now that's real service to the trade! Boy what value they are bringing to the customers. Last year they tried to buy the whole damn show at Graph Expo. Sorry Kodak, you blew it on my score card. I'm dis-continuing Kodak and voting with my feet. Kodak represents all that has gone wrong in our trade.

The salesman said "Kodak offers a single source provider to get all your stuff, we're buying everything you need" OMG, I said imagine that I take all that stuff spread among 12 suppliers. Is there really a chance all of them will perform as poorly for me and treat me like this? I'm thinking that leaving it spread out, atleast some vendors will do a good job, show respect to the customer, respect the value of my investment IN THEM.

Support diversity in our marketplace by not supporting these folks trying to create a monopoly in our industry. Brisque Users, run for your life, vote with your feet. We should get Prinergy as a free upgrade for all the damn money we spend. If we must pay, pay someone else.
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JoePostscript -- support administrator

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Last edited by joepostscript on Nov 01, 2006 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total

We switched from a brisque powering a lotem imagesetter with minimal phone-only service over to a Prinergy system powering trendsetter

The lease/purchase plus full-service/support of CTP is a break-even for our company - versus the costs of adding film and expensive poroofing to the equation. We were able to stop giving customers costly film-induced matchprints and now provide hi-res inkjets much cheaper and quicker. So the cost of proofing is also included.

Our presses rarely run over 50 thousand imressions - usually 500-5000 impressions.

Service contracts are part of the cost of doing business, just as plates, paper and labor are portions of the equation. A strongly negotiated contract on the front end is one of the most powerful tools one will have in therir ROI.

We were not forced to fire anybody, but did move some of our workforce out of prepress. The cost of labor in prepress is going down quickly and cannot be ignored when switching to a CTP solution and affording dirt-cheap proofs.

Good choice, that system will run well. Kodak's support costs are far above others in the trade and support quality has diminished allot since they bought Creo's customers and technology. That said, you have a great platesetter, external drum, thermal imaging, and the Prinergy RIP is one of the better systems on the front end. So, for a new CTP operation you are in pretty good shape.

About three years into Kodak ownership, my support costs jumped from about $4000 to $7000 with no notice. So, keep an eye on them, they make allot off of support costs. In a few years the proofing and film cost savings will be a distant memory. At that point, your CTP vendor and their high cost of continued ownership will be the next place to save money.

What plates are you guys running on the Trendsetter?

Check out the new page on our upcoming release of FreeFlight, Free Preflight Software. I will be broadcasting an installer to all active members of this forum in short order.
http://software-robotics.com/freeflight/
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JoePostscript -- support administrator

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I would have to go with Joe on the Esko / Scope workflow. You can't beat it for cost, efficiency and sheer power of editing. I have used many, many different workflows over the years from custom written to Commercial sale and Esko beats all of them hands down.

To be upfront, Esko (formerly Barco) was forced on us when I want to get Printergy about 6 years ago. I wasn't happy but had to live with the decision made by the General Manager. Thankfully, I was open minded about all of it and Scope (Backstage) has been a super power for me ever since. I can do jobs and make changes that no one else can (except other Esko users) and in turn that makes our customers more confident in us.

Give Esko a look and get a demo if you really want to see something different and powerful.

Good Luck,
theShaft

Oh yes, my Esko Scope is just about to go live. I put it in parallel with my Kodak/Creo/Scitex Brisque 5 to give plenty of time to test and adjust. Got it nicely dialed in now. We are calibrating all our plate curves since it's a change in screening angles and is quite different output, we are fingerprinting all the presses again. I can't wait to move that Brisque to bone yard.

Anybody want a nice Brisque 5 system? For sale, good deal, Brisque for sale.
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JoePostscript -- support administrator

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Wind Turbine Buyer's Guide


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over 500 users since 10 days released, FREE PreFlight

Hello, just letting you know that FreeFlight is relesed and you can download it on the FreeFlight Download forum. Must be ( member + 1 post ) to get the download. We are at over 500 users since 10 days released and the software is doing well. I have been using it for a few months before release.
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JoePostscript -- support administrator

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Wind Turbine Buyer's Guide


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