Any experience with this device? good bad or otherwise?

quality over time?

Support?

Other options in the price range?

Thanks.........

G&J showed the PlateWriter 4200 at the last DRUPA. They made plates and it was "live" but no press running the plates. Image and contrast were reported to look good. I read that people all wanted a lower plate price than was suggested. Printers seem to forget that even though the plate has no emulsion, it still costs money to make. So you would want to look at the plate costs.

I think it's a Roland printer with Epson printheads. Since January 2006, Glunz & Jensen has been actively selling PlateWriter 4200 systems into the North America. I read somewhere that users of the PlateWriter 4200 are happy and they are now producing higher quality work. But i would ask the company to produce live references to talk to and go see it, test it carefully before you jump. Not a safe jump for sure.

Reading some bullet points of their stuff I saw interesting reasons of purchasing the 4200. They point to:

- Low price point for metal CtP
- Flexible - 6, 8 & 12 gauge plates. Any size up to 26 1/2" X 36"
- Easy to use
- No Chemicals or Processing required - Daylight operation
- Low Maintenance

Most importantly the iCtP system is Processless. But me personally I think CTP should be done with laser imaging. Most successful CTP on metal plates is being done using thermal laser external drum. You are taking a known reliable imaging engine and a very reliable proven media. To me all this use of inkjets to make plates is weak in comparison. This forum is largely metal plate CTP and computer to plate and there's not allot of members doing small format or quick print type CTP but there are a few here that may comment. A decision on CTP is a mission critical decision and should really be made on devices that are outright proven successful. A whole printing company rides on a single device. Inkjet to make metal plates is interesting but not something I would stake my job or company to gamble on.
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Hello,
This G&J ink jet image setter is described in glowing terms in their annual report. With my limited memory I recall their claim to several dozen installations. Are any of these people on this forum?
This G&J system cannot be considered a replacement for the very high quality devices using lasers and external drums. But, for low quality, one or two color jobs the price points are probably very attractive. Even this a doubtful long term system because of the many Kodak, Fuji and Agfa patents that are out there regarding these technologies. What will happen when their enforcement people react to this G&J system?

Hello,
This G&J ink jet image setter is described in glowing terms in their annual report. With my limited memory I recall their claim to several dozen installations. Are any of these people on this forum?
This G&J system cannot be considered a replacement for the very high quality devices using lasers and external drums. But, for low quality, one or two color jobs the price points are probably very attractive. Even this a doubtful long term system because of the many Kodak, Fuji and Agfa patents that are out there regarding these technologies. What will happen when their enforcement people react to this G&J system?

According to the G&J rep I spoke to, repeatability is 2 microns, spot size is 32 microns. this may not be acceptable for plants running 25" and larger presses, but for small shops running 20" and under, it seems like a good alternative. With these tolerances a press like the Heidelberg SM52 should be able to print 4c process without any difficulty, provided ink/chemistry issues are compatible with plate.
All other thermal or violet laser systems on the market cost at least $ 60,000 and up. many small shops do not make enough plates every day to cost justify those thermal or violet laser systems and associated processors.
i agree that anyone considering the G&J inkjet system needs to be careful and test the plates thoroughly, but the argument that the quality isn't good enough is up to each printer and their customers to decide. regarding the patent issues, i doubt that G&J would have proceeded this far if they had any doubts about defending their intellectual property.
it would be great if a few more small printers would join this forum. often times the viewpoints of the larger printers do not coincide with small shop perspective.

I'm afraid its time has passed...
I saw the device at Drupa, and later I saw newer printed samples at Graphics Of The Americas in 2006 and 2007. They did marvels with the screening algorithms, tuning their own flavour of hybrid screening to the specific characteristics of the device. So quality was very convincing for a certain market segment, specifically 133lpi and below. I wouldn't consider it competitive with higher rulings. The quality was nevertheless way ahead of the JetPlate system.
However, the problem I saw is that pricing of the system (about $40-50K) was already in the same ballpark as buying a used 8-up thermal system (CTP and processor) in good shape and without any quality limitations, nor the problem of having a single consumables supplier. Also, in spite of not having any emulsion (just a fine graining and maybe a simple ink-receptive coating), the plates were going to cost the same or even more as current CTP plates.
So I (and probably most people), if willing to spend $40-50k, would rather buy a used thermal or violet CTP system than the iCTP.

Hi windsurfer, not sure your price info is current... according to research I conducted last week the complete package includes Platewriter 2000, Harlequin 7.x rip, and PC rip station for $25,000.
While I would agree with your reasoning if a good used violet machine was available for $40,000 I've been looking for the last year, and haven't found anything decent. Plus I still need to upgrade my rip for $5,000 or buy a new one for $10,000. Most used ctp machines are not going to come with a rip included in the sale price. In addition all violet and thermal devices (except presstek, which has a water wash device) have associated processors which require additional cost and ongoing maintenance. And as a final point, even if you can find a decent system with all the necessary components for $40-50,000 the fact is you are still buying old technology. I don't know about the rest of you, but when it comes to any digital/computer/rip/software related equipment, I would be very hesitant to buy anything that was older than 2 years max. The changes are just coming too rapidly, especially with the software.
So, that takes us back to the G&J machine. Assuming the quality is acceptable for your operation (and it won't be for everyone... see my earlier post) $25,000 seems like a pretty fair price to pay for a brand new machine and current rip. As far as plate costs, I don't think anybody is putting these devices in to save a buck or two on plates. The big advantages are no stripping and streamlined workflow. Another advantage of the inkjet plates is the no processing feature. This is a big issue, especially for those of you who actually have to do the maintenance on the plate processors.
Finally, I wouldn't get too worried about a single source for my plates. It would not surprise me to see alternatives become available in the future.

Our company tested the G&J device and found the plates to be very sensitive on press and difficult to run. The test site we visited was printing mostly one or two color line work and loved the device. Our shop prints high end agency work and the test plates we had made performed below our standards for image quality.

We installed a Screen 4100 and use Fuji ProT no process plates. Life is good!

RodYoung

Hi Rod,

I agree that this device is not for high end agency work. Never said it was. See my post of Dec 18, 2007.
We just tested a demo plate (supplied by G & J) on a QM 46. Here was the test protocol: press had been running various production jobs for about 3 hours, printing on 12" x 15" 50# WSO, black ink, mostly type and rules w/various small screens. Did about 5 plate changes during the 3 hours.
At the end of this regular production we loaded the demo plate. Did not change anything on the press... i.e. same paper, ink, chemistry, etc.
Auto loaded the plate, went right into production mode, ran 700 impressions.
There was no difference in the way this plate handled or printed. It was just like a regular Kodak polymer plate.
However, I did notice that if I was going to run these plates all the time I would probably have to reset form roller pressures, because the plate is slightly thinner than what we are running.
The other thing that was immediately apparent is that the 10-30% values were printing too light, the mid tones were right on, and the 60-99% values were too dark. I don't think this is a big problem, because part of the calibration process with a new system is to set press curves.
The other big factor that was immediately noticeable was that G&J uses stochastic screen algorithms for these plates. So... if you expect conventional AM dot patterns, forget it. You have to live with stochastic, and you have to set up your curves properly.
All that being said, I would still consider this system as long as it passes your own internal (and your client's) QC standards. But no, it is not ever going to compete at the high end. But it only costs $25,000 with no processing issues and a new RIP.
Here's another thought that will make you laugh... I'm seriously considering just staying with film. We don't output enough plates to even cost justify the G&J machine (remember I told you I was the Prepress Forum's small printer). I can upgrade my RIP to level 7.x and buy a good refurbished imagesetter for $12,000 and I'm still running a film processor anyway. Plus I get to keep my AM dots!